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Buddy
 Post subject: BAD TRADER: CONSLER, GERMANY; SENT "NO NAME" DISCS
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:38 am 
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I got only "no name" cheap generic disks from this guy and he refuses to exchange them! :(
Michael is the only trader, who does not consider the rules. I sent him many e-mails to arrange things but he aswered after many reminders only.
And now he wants to extort me to change his voting if I want brand name discs. :x


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DLedin
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:01 am 
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I was guilty of this once myself because I overlooked that detail in a trader's rules. I apologized and told the trader that I'd stand behind the discs if anything was not right with them.

While following an individual's trading rules is something that should be done, not all "no-name" discs should be considered cheap, generic discs. (Indeed, you may not even be making that claim.)

A good example is that the discs that Doc Ebbetts uses are "no-name" silver blanks. If you read the disc in a program like Nero you can see that the manufacturer is actually Pro-disc which I've not heard any complaints about.

Since I mainly use "no-name" silver Pro-disc blanks I always try to clear it with the trader before sending them.

BTW- I've also had problems with branded discs so there are no guarantees. If you have a preferred brand disc and the "no-name" disc has no problems you can always copy it onto your preferred brand. Yes, it's extra trouble but if it's important to you then it may be worth the effort. Just some thoughts...
-DLedin


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Beatles_in_NJ65
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:56 am 
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DLedin wrote:
I was guilty of this once myself because I overlooked that detail in a trader's rules. I apologized and told the trader that I'd stand behind the discs if anything was not right with them.

While following an individual's trading rules is something that should be done, not all "no-name" discs should be considered cheap, generic discs. (Indeed, you may not even be making that claim.)

A good example is that the discs that Doc Ebbetts uses are "no-name" silver blanks. If you read the disc in a program like Nero you can see that the manufacturer is actually Pro-disc which I've not heard any complaints about.

Since I mainly use "no-name" silver Pro-disc blanks I always try to clear it with the trader before sending them.

BTW- I've also had problems with branded discs so there are no guarantees. If you have a preferred brand disc and the "no-name" disc has no problems you can always copy it onto your preferred brand. Yes, it's extra trouble but if it's important to you then it may be worth the effort. Just some thoughts...
-DLedin



Very sound advice... after all, are we responsible to purchase EVERY type of disc? I know some discs that are made overseas are not available in the U.S. Isn't the whole idea of "trading" to help all keep co$t down?
If you want your favorite brand disc, by all means- feelfree to copy... if the discs play and are without distortion... how can it be a bad trade? :no:

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StrangedaysTX
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:15 am 
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yeah even some brands that are made by stores like Office Max and Staples supposidly they stand behind the quality of the cdrs.

Personally I use Sony,Fuji and worse comes to worse memorex

If I have the cash Ill usually do the silvers since I have a thermal disc printer but going back to the subject in hand if he knew then yes hes guilty but we make mistakes like that :)

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ringosshed
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:21 am 
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I think it would be fair to change your review if Consler sends you brand names in replace of the error. Hey it's Xmas right?


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Buddy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:47 am 
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Good to hear your opinions here.

@ DLedin & StrangedaysTX
It is not a problem to overlooked details in a trader's rules. Mistakes can happen, right? But it is not too much required to replace cheap no name dvds if there is a note in the profile. So far I received twice no name products and both her was replaced.

@ Beatles_in_NJ65
I agree with you - we aren't responsible to purchase EVERY type of disc.
I just ask to use something of good brand-name quality in my profile and don't mean a special brand name. Maybe you remember there was a threat about branded discs in this forum.
Surely there are some discs that are made overseas are not available in the U.S. But the trader is living in the same country as I and "Platinium" is one of the cheapest discs here. :wobble:
I've received some"white label" disks and other "no name" cheap generic disks like "SilverDisc", "Mmore", "Platinium" in trades, and have had more problems with these damn things popping, skipping, and not playing at all than anything else - or they may playable for a short while (2-3 times), then many of them go belly-up. These discs became more work than pleasure. :(

Naturally I can copy the dvds. But that is not the sense of trading. Finally the additional copies cost my money. And dvds are twice as expensively as cds here. I dispatch branded articles and expect that I also get these.

If someone refuses to correct his mistake after he ignorize the rules that is a bad trade in any case. :x Surely you provided also rules for trading. How would it please, if someone burns in to high speed or in TAO?

@ringosshed
Yes, you're right. It's Xmas and I hope there will be a chance to change my review. But Consler don't want to send brand names in replace of the error. In fact he is the first trader who refuses to correct a mistake.

I agree with you all that there are no guarantees to have no problems with branded discs but the chance is smaller than with no name products.

My best wishes
Buddy


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DLedin
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:11 pm 
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Buddy,

You make some good points. Fortunately in the case where I sent silver blanks I did not have to re-send the discs on branded discs. To be honest, I was not really wanting to do that either since the trade was to another country. (It's not the expense I mind so much, it's the drag of waiting in long, slow lines to ship out of the country.) Also I, and those I've traded with, have not had difficulties with the silver blanks I use so I was pretty confident they'd be trouble-free.

In my case the trader was gracious enough to accept my guarantee that I'd stand behind the discs I sent. If my trader had insisted that I re-send on branded discs then I would have done so. After that experience I decided to keep at least a small batch of branded discs on hand. I now read everyone's individual trading rules more carefully. If disc preference is not specified in the rules I will still try to clear it with the trader before burning & sending anyway. I don't have to do that but it's a courtesy that can save frustration, time, & $$.

I hope you're able to work this out to your satisfaction. If not then hopefully the "no-name" discs are playable. Then you'd have the options to either copy them onto your preferred brand blanks or throw them out and trade someone else for the same discs again on branded discs.

-DLedin


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dirty_dog_bootlegs
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:16 pm 
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Seems this is a well thought out, intelligent gripe...
I suppose if you ask for a specific rule in your profile, you have a right to expect it to be honored, and if it is agreed upon BEFORE a trade, thatn a deal is a deal... I hope this person corrects their mistake for you. In the same country sounds like no big problem to do so... Better to fix than take the hit on your character. I've replaced a few (dozen) discs during trades. Been slow, been dazed and confused too, but a general willingness to cooperate and do my BEST in a trade is what I always tried to do... Maybe this person will have a change of heart after seeing the people from the Zone rally to you in agreed support for accepting rules upon condition of trading.......
Merry Christmas to all who celbrate, and Joy and PEace to those who celebrate other hollidays- you know who you are! :love:


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ringosshed
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:25 am 
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I don't think Consler should be in the Hall Of Shame over one bad trade.
I looked at both your profiles and it appears you are both excellent well respected traders. Consler should correct the problem and you should remove the negative rating and re-tract this Hall of Shame. I would be interested to hear from Consler here. Merry xmas to you both and let's hope you can work it out.


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Denny Wingman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:22 pm 
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I use Platinum CDs, too, and I've always been very happy with them. Then again, there are only like 5 manufacturers of CD blanks in the world, and in reality you might get discs by different manufacturers even if you always buy the same brand.
So, the definition of cheap and generic is not so easy, especially since Tayo Yuden that are considered the best blanks often come without any brand on them.
As long as he didn't send you Aldi CDs... (those are real shitty and deteriorate quite fast).


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Buddy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:01 am 
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Denny Wingman wrote:
I use Platinum CDs, too, and I've always been very happy with them. Then again, there are only like 5 manufacturers of CD blanks in the world, and in reality you might get discs by different manufacturers even if you always buy the same brand.
So, the definition of cheap and generic is not so easy, especially since Tayo Yuden that are considered the best blanks often come without any brand on them.
As long as he didn't send you Aldi CDs... (those are real shitty and deteriorate quite fast).


Maybe you are very happy with your Platinium CDs but I had problems with them in the past if they weren't playable two months later. But do you use also Platinium DVDs without problems? DVD player are more sensitive with cheap discs and I got Platinium DVDs although there is a note in my profile that I don't accept them. Again - mistakes can happen but Consler is the first trader who refuses to correct a mistake. :no:
You're right to say there are only a handful of manufacturers of CD blanks in the world but there are A-products and B-products. The ALDI CDs (which are real shitty and deteriorate quite fast) must manufact from one of the 5 manufacturers of CD blanks in the world, right? :roll:
I agree with you if you say the definition of cheap and generic is not so easy but there are many disscusions about brand name disc here in the forum


http://www.bootlegzone.com/phpBB3/viewt ... ight=brand

http://www.bootlegzone.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4207


best greetings
Buddy


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steve23yh
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:40 pm 
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Read the issues with interest. Just wanted to make a small tangential point.

I've always been somewhat bemused by the amount of rules some traders have (some seem to have more trading rules than discs!). I've always thought it a bit patronising to tell everyone to record TAO and on "real" discs - clearly that's not 100% the case!

But I thought I'd do a bit of a test. In early August I added a "rule" to my trading profile - asking that everyone who trades with me writes the name of the artist and venue on the disc to help me identify them (in other words, the exact opposite of what most people ask for).

Guess how many discs I've so far received with writing on them? Not a single one. My belief, therefore, is that because so many traders seem to have endless rules in their profiles, nobody actually bothers to read them. We're all totally blasé and assume we know what we're doing - and 99% of the time, we're probably right.

So Buddy, I would suggest that if quality discs are important to you, it's probably worth reinforcing this in your e-mail contact when you set up the trade, rather than assuming your trading partner reads the rules - assume that they haven't!

All the best.

SR


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peterchecksfield
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:12 pm 
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steve23yh wrote:
Read the issues with interest. Just wanted to make a small tangential point.

I've always been somewhat bemused by the amount of rules some traders have (some seem to have more trading rules than discs!). I've always thought it a bit patronising to tell everyone to record TAO and on "real" discs - clearly that's not 100% the case!

But I thought I'd do a bit of a test. In early August I added a "rule" to my trading profile - asking that everyone who trades with me writes the name of the artist and venue on the disc to help me identify them (in other words, the exact opposite of what most people ask for).

Guess how many discs I've so far received with writing on them? Not a single one. My belief, therefore, is that because so many traders seem to have endless rules in their profiles, nobody actually bothers to read them. We're all totally blasé and assume we know what we're doing - and 99% of the time, we're probably right.

So Buddy, I would suggest that if quality discs are important to you, it's probably worth reinforcing this in your e-mail contact when you set up the trade, rather than assuming your trading partner reads the rules - assume that they haven't!

All the best.

SR


Excellent points, well said! I too am guilty of not reading traders rules & regulations in their profiles, but I do tell potential traders via messages / emails what my expectations are.

For what it's worth, I personally always copy DVDs on 'brand' name discs (usually Sony or Phillips) as DVD Players can be more critical of cheap discs, though with CD-Rs I use whatever I can get reasonably cheap around here. I also copy both DVDs / CDs at maximum speeds on my computer. Naturally I'm happy with all of the above from other traders too.

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ringosshed
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:03 am 
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[But I thought I'd do a bit of a test. In early August I added a "rule" to my trading profile - asking that everyone who trades with me writes the name of the artist and venue on the disc to help me identify them (in other words, the exact opposite of what most people ask for).

Guess how many discs I've so far received with writing on them? Not a single one. My belief, therefore, is that because so many traders seem to have endless rules in their profiles, nobody actually bothers to read them. We're all totally blasé and assume we know what we're doing - and 99% of the time, we're probably right.



Steve, I saw this when I traded with you and first thought it might be a mistake. I then realized after re-reading that it wasn't. I did not write on the disc as my handwriting is so shitty. I just couldn't do it :lol: My bone of contention here is should Consler be added to the hall of shame over one disagreement as he has an exemplary record. Most in the Hall of Shame have been right bastards that have shafted numerous people. This is not the case here. Still we have not heard from Consler!


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peterchecksfield
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:32 am 
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ringosshed wrote:
[But I thought I'd do a bit of a test. In early August I added a "rule" to my trading profile - asking that everyone who trades with me writes the name of the artist and venue on the disc to help me identify them (in other words, the exact opposite of what most people ask for).

Guess how many discs I've so far received with writing on them? Not a single one. My belief, therefore, is that because so many traders seem to have endless rules in their profiles, nobody actually bothers to read them. We're all totally blasé and assume we know what we're doing - and 99% of the time, we're probably right.



Steve, I saw this when I traded with you and first thought it might be a mistake. I then realized after re-reading that it wasn't. I did not write on the disc as my handwriting is so shitty. I just couldn't do it :lol: My bone of contention here is should Consler be added to the hall of shame over one disagreement as he has an exemplary record. Most in the Hall of Shame have been right bastards that have shafted numerous people. This is not the case here. Still we have not heard from Consler!


Has anyone private messaged Consler to tell him this thread is here? Just a thought... 8O

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Buddy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:15 pm 
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I sent Consler an E-Mail to tell him this thread. The only reaction is to delete his rating. :?
No reaction to my other messages to arrange our problem. :(

Greetings
Buddy


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Buddy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:41 am 
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In fact CONSLER is the only trader, who does not consider the rules and the only who did not want to correct his mistake. He had extort me to change his voting if I wanted brand name discs and now he changed his A+ rating in a negative voting. :no:
I think the long list of positive votings states enough to evaluate this "voting" correctly. :roll:
Maybe such a behavior is a reason why guys from the region where Consler is living will not beloved in Germany. What a poor guy! He earns his place in the Hall of Shame! :x

Are there no rules here that a voting must be honest? :?

Best regards
Buddy


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MisterMan71
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:14 pm 
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I am so f*cking sick and tired of people who bitch about receiving "no name discs" in a trade. If brand name discs mean so damned much to you, take the "no name's" and reburn them onto discs of your liking! I cannot tell you how unbelievably angry I would be if some a$$ labeled me a "Bad Trader", or mentioned my name in the "Hall of Shame" just because I used discs that weren't to his/her liking! That is such bullsh*t! :x
I can understand wanting a replacement if the show(s) were somehow sonically defective AND on a "no name disc", or just sonically defective. But to get all pissy beacause the discs used weren't good enough is selfish, childish, and just plain insulting. Frankly, if I were CONSLER, I'd tell you to f*ck off, Buddy! :inyourface:

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Last edited by MisterMan71 on Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Buddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:39 am 
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MisterMan71 wrote:
I am so f*cking sick and tired of people who bitch about receiving "no name discs" in a trade. If brand name discs mean so damned much to you, take the "no name's" and reburn them onto discs of your liking! I cannot tell you how unbelievably angry I would be if some ass labeled me a "Bad Trader", or mentioned my name in the "Hall of Shame" just because I used discs that weren't to his/her liking! That is such bullshit! :x
I can understand wanting a replacement if the show(s) were somehow sonically defective AND on a "no name disc", or just sonically defective. But to get all pissy beacause the discs used weren't good enough is selfish, childish, and just plain insulting. Frankly, if I were CONSLER, I'd tell you to f@@k off, Buddy! :inyourface:


:funnypost: :funnypost: :funnypost: :funnypost:

Hello MisterMan71,

in every group is a guy who wants to tell something without any knowledge, right? :king: Your opinion does not contribute anything constructional to this discussion. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Think you forgot your manners. :no: Or did nobody teach manners to you? I would like to remind you of the forum rules

http://www.bootlegzone.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3

Read this and then you should be ashamed. :bleuh:


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chill782001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:01 pm 
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I think perhaps we're all getting a little overwrought here. Personally, I always use Sony, TDK or Philips discs, but I don't mind if I receive no-names as long as there's nothing physically wrong with them. Easiest thing is just to reburn them or make a back up SHN or FLAC copy on the harddrive. Surely it's better to receive what you've asked for on no-names rather than get ripped off and receive nothing at all? Also, people who trade really large volumes sometimes tend to use no-names simply because the cost of buying so many branded discs would be very high.
I don't think Consler deserves to be in the Hall Of Shame simply for infringing a small trading rule - you could just not trade with him again if his use of no-names bothers you. The Hall Of Shame is for people who rip other people off, take their discs and give them nothing in return.


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steve23yh
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:30 pm 
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chill782001 wrote:
I think perhaps we're all getting a little overwrought here. Personally, I always use Sony, TDK or Philips discs, but I don't mind if I receive no-names as long as there's nothing physically wrong with them. Easiest thing is just to reburn them or make a back up SHN or FLAC copy on the harddrive. Surely it's better to receive what you've asked for on no-names rather than get ripped off and receive nothing at all? Also, people who trade really large volumes sometimes tend to use no-names simply because the cost of buying so many branded discs would be very high.
I don't think Consler deserves to be in the Hall Of Shame simply for infringing a small trading rule - you could just not trade with him again if his use of no-names bothers you. The Hall Of Shame is for people who rip other people off, take their discs and give them nothing in return.


Hear hear.


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Buddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:19 pm 
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chill782001 wrote:
The Hall Of Shame is for people who rip other people off, take their discs and give them nothing in return.


It is also a kind of rip off to send cheap DVDs and to get quality discs.

In addition Consler didn't answer my e-mails and refused to correct his mistake. He changed his first rating in a negative voting although I send him all his wishes with quality discs. I trade for many years and I there was no trouble until I did the mistake to answer Conler's trade require poitively.
This is a bad trade in any case and here is the place for these kind og guys.

Naturally I can copy the dvds. But that is not the sense of trading. Finally the additional copies cost my money. And dvds are twice as expensively as cds here. I dispatch branded articles and expect that I also get these.
That's it!


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MisterMan71
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:39 pm 
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Buddy.
Thank you for your critique of my post re: your completley unreasonable, and somewhat anal retentive attitude with regard to the use of "no name" blank media. How pleased I was to know that I'm that "guy with no knowledge". How I wish I had the time to debate you, but I don't. Besides, it would be a silly little gesture wasted on a silly little fellow (that being you, Buddy :rofl: ). I stand by my "unknowledgable" opinion, which, by the way, was NOT meant to be constructive in any way, shape, or form. I will concede that my use of the dreaded "F" word ( 8O) was most likely uncalled for, but I truly am sick and tired of people like you crying your little eyes out :cry: :cry: :cry: over something so damned trivial and silly. Grow up, Buddy. :weep:

p.s. I went ahead and edited all of the "bad words" from my previous post just for you, Buddy. I know how easily upset you get, and I sure wouldn't want that. :lol: :P

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Macca
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:21 am 
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los paranoias
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:49 am 
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I don't trade but Mr Man made a point. And I think the point was "get a life".


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